Most debates between “religious” people and “scientific” people are horribly boring:
RP: God exists! It’s obvious! <lists evidence>
SP: God doesn’t exist! It’s obvious! <lists evidence>
I find it about as interesting as “Bush is evil!” discussions.
Why does this happen?
Let’s look at it from NVC: a conflict is generally caused by a misunderstanding of needs vs strategy and a deficiency of empathy. On both sides, people have been bashing each other the head with their views for a long time and seeing the other side as somewhat less than fully human. One side sees the other as corrupted by faith (irrational ninnies), and the other as corrupted by science (godless heathens). This is what keeps the various sides from reaching understanding.
How do we get somewhere new?
Curiosity. Be the first one to offer openness rather than judgment, curiosity rather than contradiction, dialog rather than dismissal. But it has to be genuine. If you believe you already know whatever it is that the other person will say, what they have experienced, why they believe what they do, or have a pet theory that they are all deluded or in need of a psychological crutch, that you know the real truth and they are wrong, or their ideas are “dangerous”, then it won’t work.
An open mind is one that is genuinely willing to be changed. A real dialog always changes the hearer, because new information comes to light–things you didn’t know you didn’t know. If you aren’t willing for your mind to be changed, then your mind is closed.
Sometimes it boils down to semantics.
I have had conversations with people who are staunch, irrefutable atheists. If I talk about God I get a stone wall (ouch!). I ask them if they have ever had a spiritual experience. Nope, and that’s all hogwash.
But then (maybe as part of a different discussion so I get an honest answer), I say hey, have you ever had a moment like this, maybe you were out hiking out in the country, and the light sparks over the horizon and things light up just so and everything seems to just fit, and you find yourself smiling, because the whole world seems to somehow make sense and work together even when it doesn’t and it’s like you can feel that perfection inside you too?
Yeah, that’s happened to me.
Well OK that’s what I mean by “a spiritual experience”. This is what I’m talking about!
Scientific fundamentalism is just as frustrating as religious fundamentalism.
I want to shout out to all the geeks and scientists who haven’t questioned their assumptions about God, “Hey, there is more to God than Christianity, there is more to God than you think”. There is usefulness in the various understandings about this thing people call God. It’s a helpful concept, and not just in a “helps people feel better about the meaningless void of existence” kind of way. The thing that mystics have been getting in touch with isn’t make-believe. Real mystics tend to be very smart, very aware people. They experience an intuitive sensation of the reality that physicists are discovering right now–that everything is connected. How do they sense it? That is the part that we are going to figure out eventually, but that doesn’t make the sensing of it impossible. Just poorly researched.
But I don’t believe it’s only mystics and monks who can feel the existence of God, and I don’t mean “God a dude with a white beard” but “God the interconnectedness of everything”. I think that’s an experience most people have felt at one time or another, and an experience that can be cultivated (no drugs necessary). Be curious about it. See what happens.
And let’s all stop trying to be in the “in” club of skepticism. Skepticism and pessimism are boring. They are positions based in fear of being ridiculed.
We can all be vibrantly alive and happy. Here I discuss the ideas and tools that will get us there. ~ 